Curse

Edge Martinez · May 24, 2005, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Whatever the case, at the end of the day people who play monks get thier kicks from letting everyone else have their kicks... if you know what I mean. When in a group, my monk has 8 healing spells including rebirth. Only 3 of them can be used to heal me, so you do the math. When a fight starts, my eyes lock in on the red bars and I go to work keeping them full. When I see the little green experience number flash, I hit the next target button. and then keep healing. Trust me, there are more humble and good healers than ones who want to be recognized. We don't play monks to kill things, we don't play monks for the kung fu (because there is none), we sure as heck don't play monks to farm. We play monks so you other guys can unleash high and holy hell on some critters.

Storn · May 24, 2005, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by grimmolly

I've seen as many bad monks as bad warriors. I had one monk take serious offense to my comment that folks should seek shelter in my blood wells to save on healing. He thought I was insulting his healing skills, even though we hadn't fought yet. I had another monk in the desert recruited to my guild team that ran far ahead of the team and pulled multiple groups of aggro monsters back to us. Sadly, we raised him and he did it again, so we used him as a blood well. He healed better as a well.

This situation came up for me the other day. I was running my monk, and the Necro did tell me to get inside his blood well. The problem (not really a problem... just my tendency) was that he was a HtH Necro and I'm a Monk/Ranger. I was able to heal and contribute an arrow here or there from well outside of the usual fray of the melee. If I closed within his Blood Well, the monsters would sniff me out and start pounding away.

Often, I would simply stop running towards the fray because my arrows were landing and my healing spells were getting to the allies who needed it. But if he reads this, I did appreciate the heads up. Communication is SO key. I do consider myself a noob and I'm learning more and more. I'm enjoying the learning process. So bear with me folks.

And on the up side, we did really well until a few steps from completing the mission, my computer decided to kick me outta the game entirely. Grrrrr... had to play that mission over again. This time, I HAD to lead cause I was in a group that I was the only one who had done it. And I had already done the bonus, so I had to do it again for everyone else. Which is really a small quibble, I didn't really mind.

funbun · May 24, 2005, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by sybban

Heal in moderation, it's a lot more efficient.

For this reason alone I consentrate on Protection Prayers. Preventing damage in the first place means I, the monk, will use less energy and I won't have to heal as much. I wish more monks use protection prayers.

It's much easier to pump your team full of protecion prayers before battle rather than to run around like a chicken with your head cut off trying to keep everyone alive during battle.

If there are 2 monks in a group I think one should heal and the other should protect. That way the monks wont be steping all over themselves.

Yoda66 · May 24, 2005, 12:53 PM // 12:53

This whole discussion leads to knowwhere as long as monks and non-monks dont keep in mind that:

* A MONK IS NOT AN HEALER *

Like i dont presume you act like Stephanthe fighter, don't presume i act like Alesia!
Yes, i am a Mo/W, yes i can res, yes i can heal, but so can you the W/Mo or the N/Mo etc. But he, why is it that you the W/Mo is not using your skills to heal me as i am a zealot and not an healer?

Why do you choose to be selfminded and run off to the biggest monster you can find without keeping the rest of the party alive? The fact that you got better armor doesn't make you the better frontline soldier you know?

Monks have more skill specialties as do all players and monks can develop themselfs as what they want to be! So be happy when you see a healing monk, or a monk in general who sacrifice his skill slots to put ally spells in them, because of the rare brotherhood of Monks the healing monks are even more rare!!!...........

funbun · May 24, 2005, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda66

Why do you choose to be selfminded and run off to the biggest monster you can find...

Hear, Hear! I hate when warriors just take off with that, HULK SMASH, metality. The group hasn't even recovered from the previous battle. People need to heal and the energy needs to be restored.

I can't count the times I say, "WAIT! Heal up first."
They say, "NO, HULK SMASH." They die. I'm the only one alive.

Storn · May 24, 2005, 01:26 PM // 13:26

It took me a bit to figure out HOW to state my energy.

Now that I know, I will certainly let my allies know.

Cymboric Treewalker · May 24, 2005, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunt0r

Aloren, attacking a target which is getting healed is not a mistake. People don't accidently trip, fall, and land on their spacebar while it just so happens to be selecting a warrior. They ignore my orders to kill casters first, and I just simply quit.

How much more of a team player could I be when I tell my team the exact kill order we're going to follow, call the targets for them, and keep all 4 of us alive. Maybe you haven't played GW yet, but when you do you'll realize 95% of the player base are individual hero's who think they can do everything themselves and don't need to follow orders or play smart.

Hmm... ok.

I think there are some strategies that would involved taking on the warrior first... then switching, but I have yet to organize a team to try them out. In a PUG I agree... FIND the monk and KILL him... when they res signet him KILL him again.

Zilm · May 24, 2005, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbun

Hear, Hear! I hate when warriors just take off with that, HULK SMASH, metality. The group hasn't even recovered from the previous battle. People need to heal and the energy needs to be restored.

I can't count the times I say, "WAIT! Heal up first."
They say, "NO, HULK SMASH." They die. I'm the only one alive.

And unfortunatley this is a terrible disease! Almost every Warrior is infected with this horrible condition.

It's known as HD, or Hero's Disease. Once a Warrior is infected the party is in serious jepordy! There is no known cure. Death will surely come not only to the infected victim, but to all those associated with the disease carrier.

So to protect yourself avoid those infected with HD!

M Dew · May 24, 2005, 03:33 PM // 15:33

You make a very good point there Yoda. When I first created my Monk healing is all I had in mind. After seeing some threads and learning how much more there is to being a Monk than being a healer. I found myself switching from Mo/R to Mo/W. And I have to say I enjoy it alot. I still like to heal in a team from time to time. But when I just get tired of it or want a new flavor for a bit. I go solo a drake run or Mantles. I just make an attribute change equip my trusty old dragon sword and go to town. Monks have some very nice AoE spells and a knock down spell (Shield of Judgement) that could provide alot of use in a team. (The damage output in those few seconds the spells are running is totally insane and rather fun.) So its kinda sparked my interest.

But sadly enough more than often thats not what most PuG's are looking for in a monk. And I can kinda understand that if the player has not dabbled with monk spells before. Because that tends to be everyones first impression of a monk (including me) is being a healer.

I came from Anarchy Online and pretty much form Mid to late game a Doctor was pretty much just that a Doctor. You never really had enough points to put into fighting skills and keep your doc heals up to date and keep your casting time on a 1 to 1 ratio untill late game when skill points became readly available.

None the less tho lately, I have found myself straying away more from just healing. And becouse of this I do nto get into PuG's as Often even tho with my spell setup I am pretty effective at being able to keep myself alive and not being a drain on a docs resources in a team. I am not trying to contridict anything I have said in this thread. Its just I am learning more and more about my character each time I play and as well as reading threads like this.

So I guess the possability's are pretty endless. It just depends on the person behind the keyboard.

Safe Journey's

Mariena Feladon · May 24, 2005, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdwoody

What an ignorant thing to say. I've teamed with many different groups and have never seen this attitude in any monk I teamed with and noone that has partied with me has seen it from me. Occasionally I will run into this type of person but it can be any class. If in your experience all monks act this way and no other class acts this way it's just bad luck for you so far, trust me there is plenty of arrogance for all the classes...

How is that ignorant? I call it 'reality'.

You're just lucky you haven't met so many monks with this attitude.

As for 'it can be any class': Yes, it can. Of course, there are many arrogant players, but they can be replaced. If someone is being an ass, and he's a warrior.. fine with me. I'll just tell him to leave (or either give him a hand) because there are plenty other warriors about. Plenty of other friendly warriors, nonetheless.

As soon as you have a monk with an attitude .. well, it's either henchmen or no monk at all. That's the problem. They run the 'monopoly'.

We can't force people to stop playing their current char and make a new one which will be a Monk specialised in healing. The only things we can do is versus the arrogant monks:

- Tell them to behave (which is a futile attempt, 99% of the time)
- Bare with them
- Replace them with henchmen
- Have it their way

Number 1 rarely works
Number 2 is practically impossible
Number 3 is probably the best solution, but henchmen are dumb. Fact.
Number 4 simply won't happen

And I never said that EVERY monk is like this. Not at all. I've met very friendly and good monks that saved the whole party in those desperate moments. We thank them for that, and they appreciate it. But I've seen far too many monks act like they're a god, a born leader, just because they're so rare and needed.

All I can do right now in this thread is tell them to 'knock it off with the attitude'.

anarchism · May 24, 2005, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by sybban

Excessive healing is a problem, as a primary monk I hate when a monk wastes his energy and then you have to wait on him/her. It's just a bad way to play. I don't believe in this crap that you should the kiss the monks ass. Everyone else works their ass off to keep the monk alive. It's not like you can have a group of monks go through missions unless they focus on secondary jobs. Heal in moderation, it's a lot more efficient.

oh yes u can have a group of monks using smiting spells.. actually i can solo 8 white mantles in riverside province (lvl 18) at a time while i can only solo 4 at a time with my W/Mo.. maybe is becuase u have put more runs/money on my monk than war but the point is u could have a group of monks

jdwoody · May 24, 2005, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mariena Feladon

How is that ignorant? I call it 'reality'.

Here is your actual statement:

Quote:

There are way too few monks.. their scarcity somehow makes the monks think they are superior to any other team member and are like a god among the peasants.

I'm sorry but I find that rather insulting. I don't think of myself as superior in any way and don't think of myself as a god. (I also have a 9th level ranger my personality doesn't switch when I switch classes)

As to their scarcity I believe there are alot of monks out there, there are teams/guilds full of monks. The problem is that many times monks are treated badly in public groups so they only choose to party with people they know.

funbun · May 24, 2005, 08:21 PM // 20:21

We are not superior. We need you just as much as you need us. Do the Ascension quests without a monk and see how far you get. Get a bunch of monk to do the Ascension quests and see how far they get.

I get tired of other n00bs cussing us out when they are the ones jepodizing thsafety of the group. I get the feel in public groups that the monks is supposed to make up for the mistakes of other's suckage.

Mariena Feladon · May 24, 2005, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

And I never said that EVERY monk is like this. Not at all. I've met very friendly and good monks that saved the whole party in those desperate moments. We thank them for that, and they appreciate it. But I've seen far too many monks act like they're a god, a born leader, just because they're so rare and needed.

^

And if I did, I apologize, but here I correct myself if applicable.

Quote:

We need you just as much as you need us.

If only every monk out there had that attitude, there would have been no need for me to get angry/aggravated at some of the monks out there.

I respect monks because they keep the party alive (and I can only do so much before I'm completely out of energy) and are awesome supporters. Without monks, I'd say we'd pretty much drop like flies.

Quote:

The problem is that many times monks are treated badly in public groups so they only choose to party with people they know.

That seems indeed logical, but I can't seem to remember that a monk in our party got flamed to hell and back, because he "wasn't" doing his job right. But that might because of the fact there are so few monks out there (in public, not guilds/friends only parties). Definitely not every party I've been in had a monk (about 25% of the time we had a real monk, the other 75% was filled up with henchmen).

Lim-Dul · May 24, 2005, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Well - you know pple - I'm playing with 4 chars right now, my most beloved one being a Me/W (IW of course, but more often than not switching to a pure shutdown build), and the others being a W/E, Mo/Me and a E/N (female - my girlfriend wanted to create a char ^^).

Now - what I wanted to say is that I pretty much know every role in the game one can take. I know what it's like to be a tank, what it's like to be a pure supporter and so on and so forth. I'm also a natural leader and I strongly disagree with the concept that monks should always lead a party. I love giving orders - and I don't do it for myslef, but for the team and the goal we want to achieve - if I see that something's not right in the team, then I take command and everybody thanks me afterwards.

My point is: I like to EDUCATE people - not drop them for being too stupid. If you drop one party after another then you only cause an even greater lack of intelligence among the players. In GW most parties chat far too little. I like chatting. In fact, if I'm seeing that sth. is going wrong, I love to stop and brief my team on the situation. I clearly show them who, when and with what to attack and all works out well. Now - I wouldn't like to see a Monk thinking he's the most important person in the party, because as an experienced player (well - I did never tank much, so I'm kind of n00bish on this side =) I can judge the situation as well as the monk. I can see if a monk takes a real beating and needs help or if he's just scared by some low level creep/unskilled player who won't do shit anyway.

And that's where I'd like to see the MONKS knowing their place in a party. It's not as if the whole party should do the monk's bidding and protect him all the time. Sometimes the main priority goes to killing a certain target - you know, that even if you let your monk die, or if your monk won't be able to keep up with the healing, in the end you'll be victorious.

That said I'd like to remind you once again, that I have a monk char as well. You can NEVER get wrong if you brief your team before any given mission. You can see if you're dealing with noobs or professionals like after 10 seconds of chatting and simply decide to leave the party PRIOR to entering any mission. I just don't understand the freaking point of LEAVING the party during a fight or mission. That's the most asocial behaviour I can think of in GW. If you joined a team of dumbfreaks then blame yourself for doing so. If you did this by accident, then just make the best of it.

P.S. I think that Monk players should be praised more often for doing their job well. You all point out that everybody blames Monks for everything - that's true - nevertheless it wouldn't be half as hard to live with that fact if your party would sometimes say things like: "Good job, Monk", "Nice healing", "You saved my life" etc. - most players are never ever nice to monks (maybe sometimes after they are ressed), well - I am and it works out great.

funbun · May 24, 2005, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

You can NEVER get wrong if you brief your team before any given mission.

Well said. I do this and it helps a a lot. I say:

Rules
1. Follow the leader (I ususally nominate a warrior or somone who has completed the quest)
2. Use called targets (only one called target W, R, or Ele can call)
3. Don't split up. If you do you will die

Ususally this is enough and the group usually keeps together.

Edain Elssidil · May 24, 2005, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnCoke

Sorry I missed the point. Your right about teams etc.. But they're a rare breed as it is (good healers). Just thought you weren't being thankful. And the reason your probably seeing an increase is because many kids (yes kids) have beaten the game with their W/Mo and had hard enough time getting groups so they pick the healer KNOWING they will get a group. They seek validation of their l337 skills when they're not doing any direct damage. This in turn leads to most of the comments you see, immaturity.

I'm a W/Mo. And it's fun to be a tank that can heal himself while soloing. So it's not just for kids

Lim-Dul · May 24, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Well said. I do this and it helps a a lot. I say:
Rules
1. Follow the leader (I ususally nominate a warrior or somone who has completed the quest)
2. Use called targets (only one called target W, R, or Ele can call)
3. Don't split up. If you do you will die
Ususally this is enough and the group usually keeps together.

Exactly! The target calling, sicking together and general knowledge about missions etc. can do WONDERS! I have seen teams failing like 5 times on a mission and then suddenly goin through it without a scratch just because of following these simple rules. The map-drawing helps a lot, too. You can always find a good angle to attack some creeps and position your players. Strategy is what it's all about. (I remember my team failing 5 times in a mission - so I'm not making this one up - they nevertheless wanted to stick together (nobody left the party!) - we were failing because no one was listetning to me ^^ - then we went pr0 and organized ourselves, hell, we even tweaked the skills we were using to suit our team's purpose more accurately, and we went through the mission like a hurricane ^^)

Red Locust · May 24, 2005, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunt0r

But as a monk we do have the natural right to give you orders, and also the natural right to punish you for lack of following them. What are you going to do to us? You also fail to realize that there are more then two hundred thousand warriors in GW willing to take your place. Can't say the same about Monk's willing to take my place to play with you.

Ugh, I hate monks like you. I've had several bad experiences with monks that follow this guy's attitude and try to boss people around. In PvE, I've had monks go running off trying to get to some place by themselves, then commanding the entire team to come with them else they "won't get any heals". Obviously we get killed cause the half-witted monk pulls a ton of mobs, and then he leaves the group letting us fend for ourselves.

In PvP, I've seen monks that have the balls to say something like "ok you do what I say or I leave" and go rushing off to an enemy team while not giving a damn about our team's plan or anything like that. Needless to say we let him get killed and didn't bother rezzing him until we beat the team and had things under control. Monks as support characters should learn that they are just that - support. When I see a monk join my group and start shouting orders like some crazed dictator, I let him know his place in life and kick his ass. Especially if he's someone called "kunt0r" with an "0"...

Storn · May 24, 2005, 11:14 PM // 23:14

This monk follows orders. I try to as much as I can.

If I'm giving orders, its advice. Not "do as I say, or I leave". Usually its "hey, give me a sec to recharge!!!"

And I've had great experiences. just got done playing a mission that I got spanked on twice with henchmen. I even died, because I blinked and went the wrong way smack dab into 3 mobs at once. My team came back for me, beat off the mobs and rezzed me. Not bad for 2 warriors... I thanked them... and we went on to beat not only that quest, but the follow up quest... not easily... but no one died again (except a henchie, but he was quickly rezzed by me this time).